The Sun Interview Transcript
The Sun Online covered the story of our game on the 18th September 2006. Here's a transcript of the interview we gave them on the 21st August 2006.
THE SUN: It's fairly controversial and probably quite likely to upset a lot of people.
ANDREW S: Yeh it probably will, yes.
THE SUN: Maybe you could tell me your thinking behind it.
ANDREW S: Well I guess on the controversial nature of it, we didn't do it because we wanted to cause some controversy. I think just the subject of terrorism is controversial and you can't get away from that and especially if what you say about terrorism isn't what's normally said, then it's doubly controversial. So I think people will object to it. People object to all sorts of things. Yeh, it's a contentious issue but I guess we were attracted to that rather than repelled by it and that was partly the reason for making it a board game to maybe encourage people to talk more about the subject rather than just be afraid of it.
THE SUN: So basically you wanted to open up the debate?
ANDREW S: Definitely. Our feelings are that terrorism is quite a one-sided thing – that government and the media (no offence) tell you to be afraid and be scared and that's why we need to go to war etc. etc. but we feel there's not much honest debate around the subject.
THE SUN: So do you feel you'll do that by people playing the game or just by producing it.
ANDREW S: I think both. I think the fact that there is a game in a shop called “War on Terror, the boardgame” - it might shock some people, but shock them into thinking about it. And then also by playing it, we basically took ... the mechanism of the game is fairly accurately a reflection of Realpolitik and the various machinations of the real world. We hope people will pick up on the satire and that they'll have fun playing it, I hope because it's a good game, but also will help underline the various things we feel strongly about – the hypocrisy and double standards of -
THE SUN: Have you imagined how the families of people have lost loved ones in the July 7th bombings how they would feel about a game like this?
ANDREW S: Well I imagine they would all react differently. I think there'll be victims of terrorism who object to this particularly and those who don't and those who have no connection to terrorism will object to it and some won't. I would hope that victims of terrorism would welcome this game insofar that it is an attempt to start an honest debate and just the fact that it asks questions like “what is the cause of terrorism” which for us is a much more productive question than just sort of bombing people – that might go some way to even ending it eventually. And I would hope that they would see that our intentions are good in that. But obviously it is a very very touchy subject. But at the same time that's not a reason for us to avoid it. If anything, quite the opposite, I think it's a reason to confront it and examine it.
THE SUN: How does the game work?
ANDREW S: Basically it's for 2-6 players and every player takes on the role of an Empire and we kept it deliberately abstract. There's no America, there's no Israel – nothing like that – you're just an Empire and where you lay your pieces on the world – the board is a world map – that's where your Empire is. And as you expand your empire, you discover oil and oil is the main form of revenue so eventually when the board gets cramped, tussles start to break out, usually over oil-rich areas. And the idea is you have to liberate a significant portion of the world, in other words you have to take over a significant portion of the world. You use various means to do this – a bit of diplomacy and going behind peoples' backs and you can also fund terrorism: it's an effective way of bringing down your enemy. The problem then is that if you want to move into that country you have to fight the terrorists you just funded. Or if a player gets knocked out and stops becoming an Empire, they then become the terrorist player and they take charge of all the terrorists on the board. So you get people who go all out and fund loads of terrorism in the beginning and then someone gets knocked out and they become the terrorist player and suddenly it's like 'oh, maybe I shouldn't have been so enthusiastic about the terrorism approach'. So you never get knocked out of the game, you're always in it. So either an Empire wins or the terrorists win or there is an ending actually, that's only happened once in two years of testing which is World Peace where everyone can just agree to just sort of end it. But that rarely happens, unfortunately...
THE SUN: So you can be a terrorist in the game?
ANDREW S: You can yes. If at any time you chose to duck out of the Empire race, or indeed you get knocked out you become the terrorist player and every other player who subsequently gets knocked out – they join you as the terrorist force. So another peculiar aspect of the game is that you actually get the terrorists collaborating and working quite well together while the Empires still battle it out and fight their own little race.
THE SUN: OK so you've had 2,000 pre-orders, is that right.
ANDREW S: Well we haven't yet set up a payment system. So to represent those accurately they're more serious expressions of interest, rather than pre-orders, but we have had an overwhelming response. We've had distributors from all over the world getting in touch -
THE SUN: Oh really?
ANDREW S: Yes, including a guy from Israel last week got in touch and we've got one lined up for Australia hopefully and one from Holland. So the early response – and we haven't done much shouting about it like I said – has been very positive. There are a few people who are outraged like you say -
THE SUN: Yeh, I don't know, I have to be honest. I just find it unbelievable that someone would want to play a game where they're a terrorist blowing up people when it's happening every day in the world. I understand that you're trying to open up a debate – but I'm not sure everyone will see it that way.
ANDREW S: But in the game you can also be an Empire waging war on people. And you don't find that that is also "unbelievable" because everyone is used to war and it's sanctioned whereas terrorist acts – everyone's learnt that they're wrong and it's unbelievable. That's what I mean about how closed the dialogue is. So you're quite open to the idea of a game being about war where you kill people but not a game where you might be a terrorist and you might blow someone up. So that's part of the debate I think.
THE SUN: Yeh I guess so. So have you got any distributors in Britain yet.
ANDREW S: We've teamed up with a fulfilment company, so all the orders through the website are taken care of. And we've just started talking to retailers and distributors in this country. We haven't done much to be honest but the response we've had, while it's positive, retailers say that they think it's funny and they even say they think it will sell, but they're all worried about the potential negative PR fallout of it so they've all said, you know, 'It would be worth it if we sell thousands, or even hundreds, but not worth it if we only sell 26'. So I think people are holding back. But we've had very encouraging responses from retail, what little we've done so far.
THE SUN: Well thanks very much. That's all.